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A question for our North American friends

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Re: A question for our North American friends

Postby uncutcanuck » Wed Jan 02, 2019 7:15 pm

JamesS wrote:
Cufflinks wrote:I can talk a little bit about Canada as well, having spent five years there as a student. I knew (and know) some pretty sexually experienced ladies there whose comments lead me to believe that circumcision is the norm in all of Canada except the coastal areas to the west and to the east, and Quebec.

It was very common up until the late 1990s, when I was there, especially in Alberta, Saskatchewan, and Manitoba, and also largely in Ontario.

The strong influences from Hong Kong and China in Vancouver and surrounding areas change the picture for British Columbia, and I don't know why, but the practice also seems less common in the Maritime provinces on the east coast. At least that was the picture my lady friends painted for me.

Judging from conversations I overheard between acquaintances from Quebec, circumcision there is also common, though not as standard as in the English speaking parts of Canada.

That seems to confirm what I have seen. Very common in my area when I was born (94) but less so when my brother was born in 2000, and probably even less nowadays sadly.


Even as an Ontarian, it's very hard for me to pinpoint the prevalence of circumcision in Canada (or Ontario for that matter).

I, like James S, am also from 1994, but my parents left me uncut. Among my friend group (mostly white middle to upper-middle class guys), the circ rate is about 50%.

More interestingly, I've noticed significant variation even between relatively close NEIGHBOURHOODS in Toronto. For example, a much higher percentage of kids I went to middle school (grades 7 and 8) with seemed to be cut than where I went to elementary school (grade 1 to 6). The schools are only about a 15 minute drive apart. Furthermore, neither school had a high Muslim or Jewish population.

I'm almost tempted to say that whether a 1990s kid was circumcised at birth (at least in Ontario) had more to do with the hospital they were born at than anything else. In 1994, OHIP (the Ontario Health Insurance Plan) delisted circumcision from provincial coverage unless it was medically required. Put simply, as of some point in 1994, parents would have to cover the costs themselves.

My hypothesis is that some hospitals were quicker than others to begin "outsourcing" the practice to private clinics than others. Thus, children born at those hospitals were much less likely to automatically be circ'd than kids born at hospitals that still performed RIC (even after the delisting).

Nowadays, some Toronto hospitals only offer circumcision once a week while others have completely stopped doing it. As a final note, this is one reason it makes it hard to estimate a true circ rate; many of the private clinics may not collect data, so I suspect the overall circ rate is higher in Canada than the estimated 32% from 06/07. I have omitted the sources for this post but I can share them if anyone is interested.
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Re: A question for our North American friends

Postby JamesS » Thu Jan 03, 2019 12:17 pm

uncutcanuck wrote:
JamesS wrote:
Cufflinks wrote:I can talk a little bit about Canada as well, having spent five years there as a student. I knew (and know) some pretty sexually experienced ladies there whose comments lead me to believe that circumcision is the norm in all of Canada except the coastal areas to the west and to the east, and Quebec.

It was very common up until the late 1990s, when I was there, especially in Alberta, Saskatchewan, and Manitoba, and also largely in Ontario.

The strong influences from Hong Kong and China in Vancouver and surrounding areas change the picture for British Columbia, and I don't know why, but the practice also seems less common in the Maritime provinces on the east coast. At least that was the picture my lady friends painted for me.

Judging from conversations I overheard between acquaintances from Quebec, circumcision there is also common, though not as standard as in the English speaking parts of Canada.

That seems to confirm what I have seen. Very common in my area when I was born (94) but less so when my brother was born in 2000, and probably even less nowadays sadly.


Even as an Ontarian, it's very hard for me to pinpoint the prevalence of circumcision in Canada (or Ontario for that matter).

I, like James S, am also from 1994, but my parents left me uncut. Among my friend group (mostly white middle to upper-middle class guys), the circ rate is about 50%.

More interestingly, I've noticed significant variation even between relatively close NEIGHBOURHOODS in Toronto. For example, a much higher percentage of kids I went to middle school (grades 7 and 8) with seemed to be cut than where I went to elementary school (grade 1 to 6). The schools are only about a 15 minute drive apart. Furthermore, neither school had a high Muslim or Jewish population.

I'm almost tempted to say that whether a 1990s kid was circumcised at birth (at least in Ontario) had more to do with the hospital they were born at than anything else. In 1994, OHIP (the Ontario Health Insurance Plan) delisted circumcision from provincial coverage unless it was medically required. Put simply, as of some point in 1994, parents would have to cover the costs themselves.

My hypothesis is that some hospitals were quicker than others to begin "outsourcing" the practice to private clinics than others. Thus, children born at those hospitals were much less likely to automatically be circ'd than kids born at hospitals that still performed RIC (even after the delisting).

Nowadays, some Toronto hospitals only offer circumcision once a week while others have completely stopped doing it. As a final note, this is one reason it makes it hard to estimate a true circ rate; many of the private clinics may not collect data, so I suspect the overall circ rate is higher in Canada than the estimated 32% from 06/07. I have omitted the sources for this post but I can share them if anyone is interested.

Very interesting! I believe I was a RIC baby, but my younger brother definitely wasn’t. Maybe I just got lucky with the hospital I was born in, haha. I’ve always figured that it could be quite different from city to city, but it’s super interesting to hear about the differences in neighbourhood that you noticed.

I agree that the circ rate is certainly much higher than that data shows. Most parents are taking their kids to private clinics now, and if those aren’t counted they’re not counting most of the circumcisions done in Canada.
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Re: A question for our North American friends

Postby uncutcanuck » Thu Jan 03, 2019 7:41 pm

@James S You've got a point about your younger brother. I assume your parents must be pro-circ enough to have taken him to a clinic, or perhaps they figured it was better to have him done so the two of you would match. If you had never been done (presumably as an RIC), maybe they would have left him uncut?

Maybe a better way of saying it would be that the hospital may be particularly important for parents who are undecided or wavering back and forth about the decision. In these cases, parents in hospitals where RIC had already become less common would be more likely to leave their sons intact (as going to a clinic may seem like too much trouble), while parents in hospitals where RIC was still common would be more likely to get it done.

From talking to my friends and even my own parents, many people have seemingly "minor" reasons that sway them one way or the other. One of my friends was done simply because his mom had talked to a few mothers from the same area who had their sons done, and part of the reason I wasn't done was because of my maternal grandfather's belief that "only Jews are circumcised". This is something I've always found interesting, as I think about circumcision almost daily, while parents probably forget about it once they leave the hospital.
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Re: A question for our North American friends

Postby JamesS » Fri Jan 04, 2019 12:31 am

uncutcanuck wrote:@James S You've got a point about your younger brother. I assume your parents must be pro-circ enough to have taken him to a clinic, or perhaps they figured it was better to have him done so the two of you would match. If you had never been done (presumably as an RIC), maybe they would have left him uncut?

Maybe a better way of saying it would be that the hospital may be particularly important for parents who are undecided or wavering back and forth about the decision. In these cases, parents in hospitals where RIC had already become less common would be more likely to leave their sons intact (as going to a clinic may seem like too much trouble), while parents in hospitals where RIC was still common would be more likely to get it done.

From talking to my friends and even my own parents, many people have seemingly "minor" reasons that sway them one way or the other. One of my friends was done simply because his mom had talked to a few mothers from the same area who had their sons done, and part of the reason I wasn't done was because of my maternal grandfather's belief that "only Jews are circumcised". This is something I've always found interesting, as I think about circumcision almost daily, while parents probably forget about it once they leave the hospital.

It’s definitely possible. My dad is actually uncut, so I’m not entirely sure why or if he really wanted us to be done. My brother was done at our home when he was a baby, so I don’t imagine that was very routine... I think it is definitely possible that if I hadn’t been done we both would have been left uncut, but who knows. It seems like it often is small factors that decide between getting your kids done or not.
JamesS
 
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Re: A question for our North American friends

Postby onyx99 » Mon Jan 07, 2019 1:12 am

I find it hot, that the alteration of a boys penis in this context nearly depends on coincidence. And one cant do anything about it. Even finding out decades later how you became member of team cut and that loosing your foreskin depended on very small factors is interesting.
I come from a non-circumcisin country but i followed this thread very curiously.
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Re: A question for our North American friends

Postby north_cock » Mon Jan 07, 2019 3:06 am

I think that is very true, about circumcision in Canada coming own to very momentary considerations. I was left uncut in the early '80s - I have no doubt that if a doctor had recommended it and made any case at all, I'd have been cut. The first doctor my parents discussed the question with (I think they asked, as my father was cut) said it wasn't being done anymore. The doctor who delivered me never raised the issue, and so I left hospital with my foreskin intact. But neither parent was passionate on the matter - had the delivery doc said "that foreskin looks long" or "I really think it's cleaner" I probably would have been circumcised. Unsurprisingly, given my interest in the subject, considering this 'close call' fascinates me to no end.

When I asked my mother about it years ago, she told me that she thinks that first doctor was clearly wrong - circumcision is still being done, and I confirmed that it is still very rare to see other uncircumcised men in change rooms. She said that whenever she sees circumcision in the news, she wonders if they made the right decision to leave me uncut.
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Re: A question for our North American friends

Postby JamesS » Wed Jan 09, 2019 11:55 am

north_cock wrote:I think that is very true, about circumcision in Canada coming own to very momentary considerations. I was left uncut in the early '80s - I have no doubt that if a doctor had recommended it and made any case at all, I'd have been cut. The first doctor my parents discussed the question with (I think they asked, as my father was cut) said it wasn't being done anymore. The doctor who delivered me never raised the issue, and so I left hospital with my foreskin intact. But neither parent was passionate on the matter - had the delivery doc said "that foreskin looks long" or "I really think it's cleaner" I probably would have been circumcised. Unsurprisingly, given my interest in the subject, considering this 'close call' fascinates me to no end.

When I asked my mother about it years ago, she told me that she thinks that first doctor was clearly wrong - circumcision is still being done, and I confirmed that it is still very rare to see other uncircumcised men in change rooms. She said that whenever she sees circumcision in the news, she wonders if they made the right decision to leave me uncut.

Interesting that the doctor would say something like that when it’s obviously not true. Circumcision would have still been going strong when you were born.
JamesS
 
Posts: 50
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